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	<title>Comments on: Some questions for David Cameron today</title>
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	<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/some-questions-for-david-cameron-today/</link>
	<description>At the intersection of the EU, UK politics and tech</description>
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		<title>By: Carl Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/some-questions-for-david-cameron-today/comment-page-1/#comment-125123</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2815#comment-125123</guid>
		<description>Good argument, French Derek - but I wasn&#039;t suggesting undoing exclusive competence in world trade. Just freedom to conclude bilaterals in areas of shared competence and which comply with EU law. I also accepted that a common EU negotiating position may be right on the merits - as you argue re: energy. I&#039;m just saying this shouldn&#039;t be automatic just because there are EU rules on a particular subject.

Actually what I&#039;m arguing for is that the external competence of the EU should precisely mirror &quot;internal&quot; competence under the Treaties, rather than go in further than it, as it does currently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good argument, French Derek &#8211; but I wasn&#8217;t suggesting undoing exclusive competence in world trade. Just freedom to conclude bilaterals in areas of shared competence and which comply with EU law. I also accepted that a common EU negotiating position may be right on the merits &#8211; as you argue re: energy. I&#8217;m just saying this shouldn&#8217;t be automatic just because there are EU rules on a particular subject.</p>
<p>Actually what I&#8217;m arguing for is that the external competence of the EU should precisely mirror &#8220;internal&#8221; competence under the Treaties, rather than go in further than it, as it does currently.</p>
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		<title>By: The problems with Cameron's new Euro policy &#124; Left Foot Forward</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/some-questions-for-david-cameron-today/comment-page-1/#comment-125110</link>
		<dc:creator>The problems with Cameron's new Euro policy &#124; Left Foot Forward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2815#comment-125110</guid>
		<description>[...] on his blog, Jon Worth, an expert on European Union functions, ask: &#8220;What precisely in EU employment and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on his blog, Jon Worth, an expert on European Union functions, ask: &#8220;What precisely in EU employment and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: french derek</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/some-questions-for-david-cameron-today/comment-page-1/#comment-125109</link>
		<dc:creator>french derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2815#comment-125109</guid>
		<description>@ Carl Gardner. Bilateral agreements may be fine to you in theory but in practice (and in the long run) every country stands to lose out. 

Take oil and gas supplies from Russia. By acting as a single entity the EU has been able to put together pipeline and supply agreements that would be almost impossible through bilateral agreements. However, given the current short-termist greed of some member states, Russia has been able to play off one against the other, through separate bilateral deal. Only by acting together can Russia be restrained somewhat.

World trade (eg WTO) negotiations would be even more difficult if each EU member state were to argue their own corner. Certainly the levels of WTO tariff agreements would be far fewer than at present. 

NB why do you think the BRIC nations now try to reach a common approach before each WTO round? They find that this preliminary &quot;levelling out&quot; of differences gives them greater negotiation power. ie they are deliberately adopting the EU negotiating approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Carl Gardner. Bilateral agreements may be fine to you in theory but in practice (and in the long run) every country stands to lose out. </p>
<p>Take oil and gas supplies from Russia. By acting as a single entity the EU has been able to put together pipeline and supply agreements that would be almost impossible through bilateral agreements. However, given the current short-termist greed of some member states, Russia has been able to play off one against the other, through separate bilateral deal. Only by acting together can Russia be restrained somewhat.</p>
<p>World trade (eg WTO) negotiations would be even more difficult if each EU member state were to argue their own corner. Certainly the levels of WTO tariff agreements would be far fewer than at present. </p>
<p>NB why do you think the BRIC nations now try to reach a common approach before each WTO round? They find that this preliminary &#8220;levelling out&#8221; of differences gives them greater negotiation power. ie they are deliberately adopting the EU negotiating approach.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/some-questions-for-david-cameron-today/comment-page-1/#comment-125106</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2815#comment-125106</guid>
		<description>Plus I think the Tories could reasonably target exclusive external competence as defined in the ERTA case (and article 3.2 of the ToFU, as it will be). As things stand, even in a field in which the EU and member states share competence, member states can&#039;t even negotiate bilateral agreements with third countries that are consistent with EU rules. The mere fact there are EU rules on the same subject means the EU automatically takes over exclusive competence. That does create creeping international competence - even in areas of competence that everyone accepts are shared, within the EU!

That seems to me difficult to defend: arguably a better rule is that member states should be able to conclude bilaterals that are consistent with EU rules, except in areas where the EU has exclusive competence expressly (like world trade) or &quot;internally&quot; (like conserving fish stocks). A reasonable safeguard would I think be for draft agreements to be submitted to the C&#039;ion in advance so it could object to any inconsistency with EU law, and make proposals for a common European approach if justified on the merits.

Getting very drily tecchy now, sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plus I think the Tories could reasonably target exclusive external competence as defined in the ERTA case (and article 3.2 of the ToFU, as it will be). As things stand, even in a field in which the EU and member states share competence, member states can&#8217;t even negotiate bilateral agreements with third countries that are consistent with EU rules. The mere fact there are EU rules on the same subject means the EU automatically takes over exclusive competence. That does create creeping international competence &#8211; even in areas of competence that everyone accepts are shared, within the EU!</p>
<p>That seems to me difficult to defend: arguably a better rule is that member states should be able to conclude bilaterals that are consistent with EU rules, except in areas where the EU has exclusive competence expressly (like world trade) or &#8220;internally&#8221; (like conserving fish stocks). A reasonable safeguard would I think be for draft agreements to be submitted to the C&#8217;ion in advance so it could object to any inconsistency with EU law, and make proposals for a common European approach if justified on the merits.</p>
<p>Getting very drily tecchy now, sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/some-questions-for-david-cameron-today/comment-page-1/#comment-125105</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2815#comment-125105</guid>
		<description>Yes, if they do get power I predict another outbreak of strife within the Tory party about Europe, the likes of Bill Cash pressing for more repatriation and even withdrawal, and Cameron forced into the John Major position. It might be quite cheering for the Labour opposition to see the 1990s repeated so obviously as farce.

What&#039;s amazing is the ignorance of their positions. David Davis mentions foreign policy; but we already have a complete veto on that. What&#039;s to be gained by repatriation? He also mentions crime, asylum and immigration. But again, we have a complete opt-out, or rather opt-in, to that, so repatriation makes no difference.

In comparison I think Cameron&#039;s idea of repatriating social policy is quite sane (for the avoidance of doubt, Jon, I don&#039;t agree with it!). It does need to be made clear though what aspects of social policy he means - presumably those that we opted into at Amsterdam, plus working time. 

I&#039;d have thought from a Tory (as opposed to secretly UKIP) viewpoint by far the best target would be an amendment of the national parliaments&#039; &quot;yellow card&quot; to boost it into some sort of &quot;red card&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, if they do get power I predict another outbreak of strife within the Tory party about Europe, the likes of Bill Cash pressing for more repatriation and even withdrawal, and Cameron forced into the John Major position. It might be quite cheering for the Labour opposition to see the 1990s repeated so obviously as farce.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s amazing is the ignorance of their positions. David Davis mentions foreign policy; but we already have a complete veto on that. What&#8217;s to be gained by repatriation? He also mentions crime, asylum and immigration. But again, we have a complete opt-out, or rather opt-in, to that, so repatriation makes no difference.</p>
<p>In comparison I think Cameron&#8217;s idea of repatriating social policy is quite sane (for the avoidance of doubt, Jon, I don&#8217;t agree with it!). It does need to be made clear though what aspects of social policy he means &#8211; presumably those that we opted into at Amsterdam, plus working time. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d have thought from a Tory (as opposed to secretly UKIP) viewpoint by far the best target would be an amendment of the national parliaments&#8217; &#8220;yellow card&#8221; to boost it into some sort of &#8220;red card&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: M</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/some-questions-for-david-cameron-today/comment-page-1/#comment-125103</link>
		<dc:creator>M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2815#comment-125103</guid>
		<description>&quot;If the Tories want to be honest and bold they should promise a referendum on Britain’s membership of the European Union, full stop, in or out&quot;.

ABSOLUTELY.  I have been arguing the same thing for years!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If the Tories want to be honest and bold they should promise a referendum on Britain’s membership of the European Union, full stop, in or out&#8221;.</p>
<p>ABSOLUTELY.  I have been arguing the same thing for years!</p>
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		<title>By: maryhoneyballmep</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/some-questions-for-david-cameron-today/comment-page-1/#comment-125101</link>
		<dc:creator>maryhoneyballmep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2815#comment-125101</guid>
		<description>I completely agree with you Jon.  Cameron&#039;s in deep trouble now with an unworkable policy. policy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree with you Jon.  Cameron&#8217;s in deep trouble now with an unworkable policy. policy</p>
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		<title>By: Man in a Shed</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/some-questions-for-david-cameron-today/comment-page-1/#comment-125099</link>
		<dc:creator>Man in a Shed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2815#comment-125099</guid>
		<description>Ok here would be my answers:

1) Irrelevant question. The point is about powers not policies. The EU should not have these powers and sovereign UK should.

2) When your a net contributor you have a strong negotiating hand, so yes I would expect the other member states to pay attention when their UK taxpayer subsidies are cut off. ( After all we have the Blair/Brown betrayal on the budget to recoup ).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok here would be my answers:</p>
<p>1) Irrelevant question. The point is about powers not policies. The EU should not have these powers and sovereign UK should.</p>
<p>2) When your a net contributor you have a strong negotiating hand, so yes I would expect the other member states to pay attention when their UK taxpayer subsidies are cut off. ( After all we have the Blair/Brown betrayal on the budget to recoup ).</p>
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