Comments on: Making a mockery of even the theory of European democracy http://www.jonworth.eu/making-a-mockery-of-even-the-theory-of-european-democracy/ Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:44:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Random Passerby http://www.jonworth.eu/making-a-mockery-of-even-the-theory-of-european-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-123877 Random Passerby Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:34:44 +0000 http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2517#comment-123877 I agree with the above generally. Nearest British analogy to Partito Democratico would be if Labour merged with the LibDems (with the right-wing flank of the LibDems breaking away beforehand). No-one would expect the LibLab gestalt to join ALDE, seeing as the former LibDems would be the much smaller component of the new party. I agree with the above generally.

Nearest British analogy to Partito Democratico would be if Labour merged with the LibDems (with the right-wing flank of the LibDems breaking away beforehand). No-one would expect the LibLab gestalt to join ALDE, seeing as the former LibDems would be the much smaller component of the new party.

]]> By: Vincenzo http://www.jonworth.eu/making-a-mockery-of-even-the-theory-of-european-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-123870 Vincenzo Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:21:46 +0000 http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2517#comment-123870 I totally agree with you Jon. I found it quite undemocratic to join an EP group only after the elections. There was no real discussion on it and this decision did not really made it to the first pages of Italian newspapers. Therefore, the big chunk of the electorate did not even know of the perspective of joining the PES (or even what PES is most times). However, most of PD voters were, until 2 years ago, voting for the Social-Democratic Party (DS) a proud member of PES. By saying that I just mean that the fact of PD joining the European Socialists was only a matter of time and nobody really thought that the Democratic party could stay split or being part of ALDE. I totally agree with you Jon. I found it quite undemocratic to join an EP group only after the elections. There was no real discussion on it and this decision did not really made it to the first pages of Italian newspapers. Therefore, the big chunk of the electorate did not even know of the perspective of joining the PES (or even what PES is most times).

However, most of PD voters were, until 2 years ago, voting for the Social-Democratic Party (DS) a proud member of PES. By saying that I just mean that the fact of PD joining the European Socialists was only a matter of time and nobody really thought that the Democratic party could stay split or being part of ALDE.

]]> By: Random Passerby http://www.jonworth.eu/making-a-mockery-of-even-the-theory-of-european-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-123864 Random Passerby Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:36:23 +0000 http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2517#comment-123864 Thing is Jon, I'm not defending Partito Democratico's actions, it was pretty much a given that they were going to be working with the PES in some shape or form. The largest party who merged into it was after all, Democratici di Sinistra, an explicitly socialist party which had been in the PES since the early '90s. Heck, the PD is nothing really but a European social-democratic party claiming to be Italy's version of the US Democrats as their marketing gimmick. There was nowhere elsewhere else for the PD to sit in the europarl: they are too left for ALDE, and the futile wish of a few member of PD's right wing to form their own independent group had no chance of flying. Thing is Jon, I’m not defending Partito Democratico’s actions, it was pretty much a given that they were going to be working with the PES in some shape or form. The largest party who merged into it was after all, Democratici di Sinistra, an explicitly socialist party which had been in the PES since the early ’90s. Heck, the PD is nothing really but a European social-democratic party claiming to be Italy’s version of the US Democrats as their marketing gimmick. There was nowhere elsewhere else for the PD to sit in the europarl: they are too left for ALDE, and the futile wish of a few member of PD’s right wing to form their own independent group had no chance of flying.

]]> By: Stefan Happer http://www.jonworth.eu/making-a-mockery-of-even-the-theory-of-european-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-123850 Stefan Happer Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:30:36 +0000 http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2517#comment-123850 I have already a website address for them: http://www.pasd.eu As www.socialistgroup.org is probbaly no longer appropriate. I have already a website address for them: http://www.pasd.eu

As http://www.socialistgroup.org is probbaly no longer appropriate.

]]> By: Till http://www.jonworth.eu/making-a-mockery-of-even-the-theory-of-european-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-123845 Till Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:13:57 +0000 http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2517#comment-123845 Discussions about the PES-PD relationship started latest at the PES Congress in Oporto, when the statutes of PES were amended to open membership to "progressive and democratic parties" (i.e. not only socialist ones). And informal arrangements between Gordon Brown, Martin Schulz and Dario Franceschini (the SG of PD) about rebranding the PES group and, possibly, the whole party, were widely reported by the Italian press. If British and German journalists fail to report news about top level discussions on European parties, it simply means that they consider European politics just a technical issue, as Franceschini, Brown, Schulz & Co do. They actually deserve your proposed PASD symbol. Definitely not European voters, who massively turned the back to almost all PES/EDP parties and expect a truly progressive alternative for Europe. Discussions about the PES-PD relationship started latest at the PES Congress in Oporto, when the statutes of PES were amended to open membership to “progressive and democratic parties” (i.e. not only socialist ones). And informal arrangements between Gordon Brown, Martin Schulz and Dario Franceschini (the SG of PD) about rebranding the PES group and, possibly, the whole party, were widely reported by the Italian press.

If British and German journalists fail to report news about top level discussions on European parties, it simply means that they consider European politics just a technical issue, as Franceschini, Brown, Schulz & Co do. They actually deserve your proposed PASD symbol. Definitely not European voters, who massively turned the back to almost all PES/EDP parties and expect a truly progressive alternative for Europe.

]]> By: Jon http://www.jonworth.eu/making-a-mockery-of-even-the-theory-of-european-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-123843 Jon Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:42:25 +0000 http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2517#comment-123843 @Andrea - it was a wish, but the agreement was only after the elections. Plus in UK, Germany and elsewhere the idea of re-organising and re-branding the group was not mentioned. @Andrea – it was a wish, but the agreement was only after the elections. Plus in UK, Germany and elsewhere the idea of re-organising and re-branding the group was not mentioned.

]]> By: Andrea http://www.jonworth.eu/making-a-mockery-of-even-the-theory-of-european-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-123842 Andrea Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:34:23 +0000 http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2517#comment-123842 "can the Partito Democratico MEPs really have looked voters in the eye on the election trail if they did not even know what group they were to join in Brussels? " this new group was hardly a secret. They have worked to try and form it for months and they said that the creation of the new group was their aim to collocate themself in EU Parliament. Not that everyone agreed about it as some PD people didn't seem too keen to it (some former Margherita who were in ALDE) “can the Partito Democratico MEPs really have looked voters in the eye on the election trail if they did not even know what group they were to join in Brussels? ”

this new group was hardly a secret. They have worked to try and form it for months and they said that the creation of the new group was their aim to collocate themself in EU Parliament. Not that everyone agreed about it as some PD people didn’t seem too keen to it (some former Margherita who were in ALDE)

]]> By: Florian http://www.jonworth.eu/making-a-mockery-of-even-the-theory-of-european-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-123841 Florian Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:23:06 +0000 http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2517#comment-123841 True, almost no voter knows that his voting decisioin based on issue preference is somewhat overruled by the composition of the EP political groups, e.g. voting German liberals oppossing EU Ökodiktatur and not knowing ALDE is far more liberal. Consequence? True, almost no voter knows that his voting decisioin based on issue preference is somewhat overruled by the composition of the EP political groups, e.g. voting German liberals oppossing EU Ökodiktatur and not knowing ALDE is far more liberal. Consequence?

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