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	<title>Comments on: I&#8217;ll scream the next time I read a Labour person making facile comments about Obama&#8217;s online campaign</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.jonworth.eu/ill-scream-the-next-time-i-read-a-labour-person-making-facile-comments-about-obamas-online-campaign/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/ill-scream-the-next-time-i-read-a-labour-person-making-facile-comments-about-obamas-online-campaign/</link>
	<description>At the intersection of the EU, UK politics and tech</description>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/ill-scream-the-next-time-i-read-a-labour-person-making-facile-comments-about-obamas-online-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-124438</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2268#comment-124438</guid>
		<description>Nice article,
@whoever don&#039;t get get jon&#039;s comment wrong, there are very good points to learn from Obama</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article,<br />
@whoever don&#8217;t get get jon&#8217;s comment wrong, there are very good points to learn from Obama</p>
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		<title>By: whoever</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/ill-scream-the-next-time-i-read-a-labour-person-making-facile-comments-about-obamas-online-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-123844</link>
		<dc:creator>whoever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2268#comment-123844</guid>
		<description>Jon, aren&#039;t you just annoyed that you&#039;re not getting the attention and the credit which you feel you deserve?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, aren&#8217;t you just annoyed that you&#8217;re not getting the attention and the credit which you feel you deserve?</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Anstead</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/ill-scream-the-next-time-i-read-a-labour-person-making-facile-comments-about-obamas-online-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-122970</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Anstead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2268#comment-122970</guid>
		<description>Hi Jon, thanks for the comment - and will happily admit that my research pre-disposes me to looking at the US-UK scene more than others (although new projects this summer will mean that I am going to be doing a bit more work on Europe!). 

Best, Nick 

P.S. Great blog, btw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jon, thanks for the comment &#8211; and will happily admit that my research pre-disposes me to looking at the US-UK scene more than others (although new projects this summer will mean that I am going to be doing a bit more work on Europe!). </p>
<p>Best, Nick </p>
<p>P.S. Great blog, btw.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/ill-scream-the-next-time-i-read-a-labour-person-making-facile-comments-about-obamas-online-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-122949</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2268#comment-122949</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments Nick - don&#039;t get me wrong there are very good points to learn from Obama, just as there are good points to learn for Labour from all kinds of sites and campaigns. Plus I am tired of people over using the arguments - maybe it was a bit churlish of my to cite all of the Straw (+ Anstead) articles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments Nick &#8211; don&#8217;t get me wrong there are very good points to learn from Obama, just as there are good points to learn for Labour from all kinds of sites and campaigns. Plus I am tired of people over using the arguments &#8211; maybe it was a bit churlish of my to cite all of the Straw (+ Anstead) articles.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Anstead</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/ill-scream-the-next-time-i-read-a-labour-person-making-facile-comments-about-obamas-online-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-122948</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Anstead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2268#comment-122948</guid>
		<description>Hi Jon, 

Just discovered your post, so sorry this comment is a couple of days late. A bit harsh I feel - although I suppose I have a vested interest in this... :-). 

For me, the Obama campaign is interesting because it opens a window - only partially, I might add - on new forms of political and social organisation that we are starting to see emerging. These are radically decentralized in comparison with previously existing types of institutions (what has been termed &quot;low systemness&quot;). If we are able to use the example of Obama as an illustrative example to explain these concepts to people, then I am all for it. 

To take your general points in turn:

- Politicians are risk adverse both online and offline (on this, read the work of the superb American scholar Jenny Stromer-Galley, who also has a chapter in our book). So when you ask &quot;why will our politicians not take risks?&quot;, my response is because the institutions do not incentivise them to do so. In the US, the primary system creates a highly competative and unpredictable environment perfect for catalysing innovation (This leads to questions of institutional design. In other words, how do we recreate political institutions that are foster innovation? I would add that, to discuss this, we need to go beyond the scope of The Change We Need and look at questions of civic, rather than party, institutional design - but that is another research project for another day!).

- Real optimism in politics has to come from the bottom and not the top. As Ben Brandzel argues &quot;The Obama movement&quot; was actually the product of many years hard work and galvanisation by organisers and ordinary Americans. For many of those years, they had no Obama to gather around. Labour&#039;s recent mistake was to take a top-down approach to online campaigning. With this understanding, the real role of parties turns into providing platforms for activism, not trying to &quot;astroturf&quot; it. 

- Completely agree with your final point (on command and control, and particiption), and we offer some quite detailed justification for it in our conclusion.

- Finally on the point of fundraising. I have written on the regulatory differents between the two countries and why we should not expect a replication of &quot;money-bomb fundraising&quot;. But focusing wholly on figures, I think, that misunderstands some of the lessons from the US. This goes back to a big debate in literature on campaign finance in the UK. Two schools of thought exist - first, that people donate money as a form of political activism, and second that they donate it in lieu of political activism. The second school has been highly dominant in recent decades, especially during and after the New Labour years, when many new members just gave their subs and then did nothing else. So the dominant view became that donations were akin to passive participation. But Obama (and other US campaigns) have proved this is not necessarily the case. Through data management, they skillfully construct a relationship with supporters, gradually raising the expectations of their participation and making them shareholders in the campaign. When they donate, they are buying a stake in the outcome of the election. To adopt that approach, even if the resultant amounts were relatively small, would be a big shift in the way we do things.

Best, Nick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jon, </p>
<p>Just discovered your post, so sorry this comment is a couple of days late. A bit harsh I feel &#8211; although I suppose I have a vested interest in this&#8230; <img src='http://www.jonworth.eu/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> . </p>
<p>For me, the Obama campaign is interesting because it opens a window &#8211; only partially, I might add &#8211; on new forms of political and social organisation that we are starting to see emerging. These are radically decentralized in comparison with previously existing types of institutions (what has been termed &#8220;low systemness&#8221;). If we are able to use the example of Obama as an illustrative example to explain these concepts to people, then I am all for it. </p>
<p>To take your general points in turn:</p>
<p>- Politicians are risk adverse both online and offline (on this, read the work of the superb American scholar Jenny Stromer-Galley, who also has a chapter in our book). So when you ask &#8220;why will our politicians not take risks?&#8221;, my response is because the institutions do not incentivise them to do so. In the US, the primary system creates a highly competative and unpredictable environment perfect for catalysing innovation (This leads to questions of institutional design. In other words, how do we recreate political institutions that are foster innovation? I would add that, to discuss this, we need to go beyond the scope of The Change We Need and look at questions of civic, rather than party, institutional design &#8211; but that is another research project for another day!).</p>
<p>- Real optimism in politics has to come from the bottom and not the top. As Ben Brandzel argues &#8220;The Obama movement&#8221; was actually the product of many years hard work and galvanisation by organisers and ordinary Americans. For many of those years, they had no Obama to gather around. Labour&#8217;s recent mistake was to take a top-down approach to online campaigning. With this understanding, the real role of parties turns into providing platforms for activism, not trying to &#8220;astroturf&#8221; it. </p>
<p>- Completely agree with your final point (on command and control, and particiption), and we offer some quite detailed justification for it in our conclusion.</p>
<p>- Finally on the point of fundraising. I have written on the regulatory differents between the two countries and why we should not expect a replication of &#8220;money-bomb fundraising&#8221;. But focusing wholly on figures, I think, that misunderstands some of the lessons from the US. This goes back to a big debate in literature on campaign finance in the UK. Two schools of thought exist &#8211; first, that people donate money as a form of political activism, and second that they donate it in lieu of political activism. The second school has been highly dominant in recent decades, especially during and after the New Labour years, when many new members just gave their subs and then did nothing else. So the dominant view became that donations were akin to passive participation. But Obama (and other US campaigns) have proved this is not necessarily the case. Through data management, they skillfully construct a relationship with supporters, gradually raising the expectations of their participation and making them shareholders in the campaign. When they donate, they are buying a stake in the outcome of the election. To adopt that approach, even if the resultant amounts were relatively small, would be a big shift in the way we do things.</p>
<p>Best, Nick</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny H</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/ill-scream-the-next-time-i-read-a-labour-person-making-facile-comments-about-obamas-online-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-122924</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2268#comment-122924</guid>
		<description>Spot on Jon - particularly the bit about ABC raising more money than the parties themselves. I think that is probably a better model for the parties than the Obama campaign in many ways...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spot on Jon &#8211; particularly the bit about ABC raising more money than the parties themselves. I think that is probably a better model for the parties than the Obama campaign in many ways&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: scooter</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/ill-scream-the-next-time-i-read-a-labour-person-making-facile-comments-about-obamas-online-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-122922</link>
		<dc:creator>scooter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2268#comment-122922</guid>
		<description>Sorry for misspelling barroso...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for misspelling barroso&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: scooter</title>
		<link>http://www.jonworth.eu/ill-scream-the-next-time-i-read-a-labour-person-making-facile-comments-about-obamas-online-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-122921</link>
		<dc:creator>scooter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonworth.eu/?p=2268#comment-122921</guid>
		<description>The British LP has made a deal with EU conservatives that they support Baroso and they will support Blair as EU president. It&#039;s not about choice for EU citizens. It&#039;s old style foreign policy deals... Thank you Labour
 Just read between the lines in the papers and you&#039;ll know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The British LP has made a deal with EU conservatives that they support Baroso and they will support Blair as EU president. It&#8217;s not about choice for EU citizens. It&#8217;s old style foreign policy deals&#8230; Thank you Labour<br />
 Just read between the lines in the papers and you&#8217;ll know.</p>
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